Kim
Michaels on Nancy Lee's “Lights On” radio show
Nancy: Hello everyone. Welcome to Lights On. This is Nancy Lee and I
hope you’re having a wonderful day today. I also hope that you’re
ready to be inspired. I’m so thrilled to have with me on Lights
On today, Kim Michaels. Kim, welcome to the show.
Kim: Thank you, Nancy.
Nancy: You know there’s so much energy running that I can barely
speak today. It’s a really interesting phenomenon. Let me tell
our listeners just a bit about you in a nutshell, although we could
use the whole show just by way of introduction. Kim is the author of
14 books. He is a channel for the Ascended Masters—particularly
Jesus, Mother Mary, and Saint Germain, as well as many others. He is
the host and founder of a very extensive web presence called “Ask
the Real Jesus.” And the website is askrealjesus.com. Kim, fascinating
story of how you started all of this—did you begin as a rather
regular kind of guy, would you say—born in Denmark, correct?
Kim: Yeah, I was born in Denmark and I was a very regular kind of guy,
although I was always what you would call a seeker.
Nancy: Um hmm.
Kim: I just, I couldn’t be satisfied with the answers I got from
either science and traditional religion. So I kept looking for untraditional
sources, and as I’m sure most people who are spiritual have done.
My first book was actually Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda.
And that kind of opened up a whole new perspective, because I realized
that there is a spiritual path and people have been following it for
thousands of years. So I wasn’t the only one. I wasn’t all
alone in the world, wondering if there was a spiritual side to life.
Nancy: You know it was an interesting thing—I tried eight different
religions, myself, until I discovered that there was something more
than any one of those, individually.
Kim: I think the way we have been brought up is to look at religion
in kind of black-and-white terms. Like very dualistic terms—there
has to be one true religion, and all the others must then be false.
Nancy: Yes.
Kim: And so a lot of times we grow up in a certain religion. But if
we’re spiritual people; I think we become, eventually, disappointed
with that religion. It doesn’t give us the answers we are looking
for, so we start looking elsewhere. But many times I think we go through
a kind of intermediary phase where, instead of looking for the old religion
to be the only true one; we’re now looking for a new one that
can fit that bill. And I think it’s true, as you experienced—I
experienced the exact same thing, Nancy. I went through a period where
I was constantly looking for the right belief system—until I finally
gave up on the whole idea that there has to be one true religion.
Nancy: Yes.
Kim: And I think that’s really when your spiritual progress starts
accelerating.
Nancy: Well, you know it’s very sad in a way. You look, you search,
you keep thinking there will be an ultimate truth that someone has captured,
and kind of nailed down for you and to make it easy to know exactly
which is what. And on the other hand, the liberation, that comes from
being in that place of understanding that surely there is more to it
than anyone is really grasping at this particular time, is the fuel
that actually pushes us forward and allows us to open and awaken.
Kim: Yeah, I agree with you. I think, a lot of people have a need for
that kind of security, of feeling that because they’re a member
of an outer religion, they are guaranteed to be saved.
But then I think the more open-minded people, the more – I would
like to call them spiritual people as opposed to religious people –
they realize that there is an incredible liberation in giving up this
idea that there has to be one absolute truth. This is actually something
that you can find between the lines in Jesus’ teachings.
Because Jesus actually said that “God is a spirit and they that
worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” In other
words, it’s not the outer religion, it’s not the outer dogmas
and doctrines—it’s actually that God is something beyond
anything that can be defined.
Nancy: You know, I just can’t wait to hear what else you’ve
got to say on this show. Let’s take a very short break.
We’re back. We have subject matter today that may make some of
you feel a little uncomfortable. It may make you feel that, um, ah,
we’re in opposition somehow and that’s the very last thing
that we wish to be or appear to be. In talking about Jesus and Christianity
and other religions and spirituality as a whole, the first thing I’d
ask you to do is just to understand that from an openhearted space,
we’re here to discuss truths that have been revealed to Kim. Ah
Kim, I’m not sure how long this has been going on for you but…
But, who started speaking to you and, and what was some of the messages
that started coming in?
Kim: Well, it started back in 2002. As I mentioned in the beginning,
I have had a long period of researching and studying different spiritual
topics. I grew up in a Christian nation, but my parents were not particularly
religious.
So one of the big questions I always had about Christianity was what
happened to Jesus—it says he ascended to heaven, but we haven’t
heard from him since? And that never made sense to me.
So after researching a number of different spiritual teachings, I realized
that there is a group of spiritual beings who serve as our teachers—and
Jesus is one of them. And you can then look at Jesus as an ascended
being or as an ascended master who is very much still involved with
planet earth and helping humankind grow. I believe that Jesus came to
give humankind certain initiations—certain spiritual initiations.
And he was actually the leader of a two thousand year segment of human
history or human evolution, and he is very much concerned with helping
people understand the real message that he came to bring us.
Nancy: Now when you said the real message. Do you feel that the real
message has somehow been distorted?
Kim: Yes, I believe it has. It has been completely lost in, ah, basically
in politics.
If you study the history of the Christian religion, you can go way
back and scholars have realized that the early followers of Jesus were
not called Christians—they were called “Followers of the
Way.” And if you contemplate that, you realize that you have to
question whether Jesus actually came to start a dogmatic, rigid religion.
Because if you look at history, you will see that he had, Jesus had
constant opposition from the scribes and the Pharisees and the leaders
of this religion. And they had a very rigid dogmatic approach to religion.
So why would Jesus come to start the exact same kind of religion that,
that had him persecuted and killed?
So I believe he came to actually show us a universal way to raise our
consciousness. So that we can attain the same state of consciousness
that he demonstrated—which is the Christ consciousness. And that,
of course, is something that was lost, especially when the Roman Catholic
Church was formed. Now I don’t have any particular aversion or
problem with the Catholic Church—I try to respect all people in
their beliefs. But, if you just look at history, you can see that there
were some very clear political motives for the Emperor Constantine,
when he turned Christianity into the official state religion of the
Roman Empire.
And so, ever since then, I believe that Christianity was turned into
a religion, where it is stated that you need something outside yourself
in order to be saved. Whereas, Jesus’ real message was actually
that the kingdom of God is within you, meaning you have everything you
need inside yourself, in order to be saved or obtain a higher state
of consciousness, whatever you want to call it.
Nancy: So, calling them “Followers of the Way,” that would
imply that he was asking the others to do as he was doing—is that
correct?
Kim: Yeah, it says right in the Bible—“those that believe
on me, the works that I do, shall they do also.” And I believe
that Jesus came to set an example. But what happened when the Roman
Catholic Church was formed is that they needed a very powerful figure
to replace the old pagan gods. And so they had to turn Jesus into this
almighty, powerful figure by saying that he was God from the very beginning,
or the only Son of God, and therefore he had this exceptional power.
And I believe that distorted Jesus as an example and turned him into
an exception.
Nancy: So, essentially the information that you’ve been given
and that you feel is correct is that Jesus was saying—“Be
like me, do as I do.”
Kim: Right.
Nancy: And even though they were Followers of the Way, not necessarily
was the intention there to create another church, but more a way of
being.
Kim: Yeah, if you really understand the inner teachings of Christ, you
see that they are completely universal in nature—meaning that,
really, they could be embraced by followers of any religion.
And in fact if you go and
study, you will see that just about any religion has kind of a mystica
aspect to it—in Islam, it’s Sufism. In Judaism, it’s
the Kabbalah. And, and so these mystics may be expressing their spirituality
in a certain religion, but they are not confined by it. They are looking
for a universal way to raise their consciousness. And I believe that’s
what Jesus preached. I believe that’s what the Buddha preached,
what Krishna preached and all other true spiritual teachers.
Nancy: And do unto others, or the golden rule, was a very key point
to the primary message of the past two thousand years—would you
say?
Kim: Yeah, and you can basically find that in slightly different wording
in just about any major world religion.
Taoism has it. Buddhism has
it. Islam has it. It’s a very universal concept. And I believe
that; you know, the wording that I have been given to describe that
very concept is that the universe is a mirror. In fact God created the
material universe as a kind of mirror that returns to us exactly what
we are sending out.
And so you see a lot of people around the world today, who—if
you ask them “What is life,” they would basically say life
is a struggle. But what the unconscious message that they are sending
into the cosmic mirror is “I want to experience a struggle.”
And so the cosmic mirror says: “I respect your free will. If that’s
what you want, I’ll give you circumstances that make your life
a struggle.” And then people usually respond by saying: “Oh
no, that’s not what I wanted.” And then they feel that life
is even more of a struggle and the universe gives them more of a struggle.
And it creates this downward spiral.
Nancy: Well, for simplification then. How do we get out of that particular
line of thinking and being?
Kim: Well that is essentially what Jesus and all true spiritual teachers
came to show us. We have to step back, Nancy. We basically have to have
to remember what Einstein said. I think he has a wonderful saying where
he says: “If you keep doing the same thing and expect different
results, you are insane.
Nancy: Yes.
Kim: And I think that that hits the nail on the head. I mean we have
to step back and say: “If my life is not the way I want it to
be, I have to do something different.” Jesus said it very clearly.
He said, remove the beam in your own eye, instead of worrying about
other people. To me that’s the beginning of what I would say the
spiritual path is—when people start taking responsibility for
themselves and saying: “No, I’m the one who has to change.
And how can I change to improve my life?”
Nancy: So, personal responsibility.
Kim: Yeah, I believe that is what all true spiritual teachers have taught.
Jesus certainly taught it. You see it between the lines of everything
he says.
Nancy: So, Jesus is reaching out to people in a new way, or a different
way at this time?
Kim: Well, I believe he is in a new way, because we are coming to the
close of the two thousand year period, where he was the spiritual overseer
for humankind. Many spiritual people would know it as the Age of Pisces.
And we’re moving into a new cycle, and it requires us to basically
reach for a new level of consciousness, because the new age –
the Aquarian Age – is an age of spiritual freedom. The old approach
to religion is not going to work in the Age of Aquarius.
That is why, I believe, you see many traditional churches loosing members—because
they can’t fulfill the spiritual needs of today’s people.
But, in order to really step up to the new consciousness, we actually
have to truly understand the initiation that Jesus came to bring us.
And that’s where I see a lot of spiritual people who grew up in
a Christian culture, but they have become disappointed with Christianity
because they don’t see anything spiritual in mainstream Christianity—and,
I didn’t see that myself, so I understand, fully understand these
people. But, many throw the baby out with the bath water, you know,
and they ignore Jesus. But, I believe, that unless we actually understand
Jesus’ inner teachings, we can’t actually reach the new
consciousness.
Nancy: What is the best way to understand the real teachings, if in
fact we’re still in this place of confusion about what is real,
what isn’t real, within the religions that we have grown up in
and joined and committed to, and yet, we’re feeling that lack?
I know in some cases it’s against the rules to seek outside of
those boundaries. Is that true?
Kim: Well, yeah, I’m sure there are some churches that strongly
discourage people from studying anything outside of what’s approved.
And if people are letting themselves be bound by that, I guess they
are not ready to embrace the kind of changes that you’re talking
about. I think people have to come to the point where they say: “No,
I am willing to try something new, because the old is no longer working.”
And I actually talk with a lot of people who have been loyal to a traditional
Christian church for decades and many of them are beginning to say:
“The old ways are just not working anymore.”
“We’ve
got to find something new.” And, for example, with Christianity
– well, it could be the same in any other religion – then
look at the mystical aspect of your religion. Step back and read between
the lines. Jesus, for example, talked about something called the “key
of knowledge” and I believe this is what most people today call
intuition. We have an ability to know in our heart what’s real
and unreal—and we just need to sharpen that ability and we need
to learn not to let our intellects override it. Because a lot of times,
you know, you get a first impression of a person, that he can’t
be trusted. And then your intellect overrides it and says: “Oh
no, he’s a good guy. I can trust him.” And then later it
turns out that your first impression was actually very accurate.
Nancy: Yes.
Kim: And so I think that is a place to start—to work with your
intuition and, you know, study spiritual teachings that are a little
different. And then use your heart to feel what’s true, what resonates
deep within your heart. But you have to learn to look beyond the outer
mind, because—you see, Jesus talked about it, but he couldn’t
use the words we can use today. He talked about the beam in your own
eye. I believe what he was talking about is what we today call the ego.
I think most spiritual people are aware that the ego is the force that
limits us, it’s the limiting voice in our own psychology. And
it blinds us. But if you really want to look at it, you can see that
the ego always comes from fear. And so, when you evaluate a new idea,
a new spiritual teaching, there will often be a loud voice in your mind
that comes from fear and says: “Oh this can’t be right or
this couldn’t be true.” But, if you learn to look beyond
that voice and listen to a more quiet voice within; then you can actually
feel what’s true, based on love. And if you really want the essence
of moving into a new spirituality, move away from fear and move into
love. To me that’s the key to everything.
Nancy: And I see that as the biggest roadblock in most people to most
things. So, again, you’re saying to move away from fear, move
into love and feel what is true and real for you inside your own heart.
OK, we’re going to take another short break.
Thank you all for listening to Lights On with Nancy Lee and my very
special guest, Kim Michaels. Look at his website: askrealjesus.com.
He’s written 14 books. He has in-depth questions and answers from
Masters. He has teachings from Jesus, from Mother Mary, from Saint Germain
and so much more. And “The Least You Should Know About Life”—let
me recommend that you look at this section, because it is indeed the
very least you should know. And it is huge, Okay? Check that out. But,
Kim, I understand that your latest book is The Art of Non-war.
Tell us about that.
Kim: Well, it was kind of a funny story. I was in the middle of writing
another book that I had been working on for quite sometime.
Nancy: You’re a prolific writer, evidently.
Kim: Well, I always have at least on book going.
Nancy: Okay, (laughter). Yes.
Kim: As well as putting more material on the website. I mean this is
what I do. This is my full-time job.
Nancy: Yes.
Kim: So in the middle of having my mind on this other book, I walk out
into my living room, where I have a book shelf, which I hardly ever
look at because I don’t have time to read. But, suddenly this
book jumped out at me, The Art of War by Sun Tzu.
Nancy: Ah-huh.
Kim: And the thought came into my mind—you know somebody should
write a book called The Art of Non-war—and then there
was kind of one of these intervals where time stands still, and I realized,
uh-oh, I’m the one who has to write this.
Nancy: (laughter) It must be me. (laughter)
Kim: So I literally turned around, walked back to my computer, sat down,
opened up a new word processing document, typed The Art of Non-war,
and then I started typing. And this is not a book where a particular
master says I’m dictating this book, but there was so much inspiration.
The entire book was written in a week and a half.
Nancy: Umm!
Kim: And it really talks about the difference between dualistic thinking
and non-dualistic thinking. And this is what we talked about earlier,
where, how can people move away from fear and how can they move into
love.
Dualistic thinking is fear-based thinking. And it springs from the ego,
which is born out of our separation from our own higher being. And the
only way to get out of fear is to separate ourselves from identifying
with that ego, because the ego cannot think in any other way than in
dualistic terms.
And with dualistic I mean that there always has to be two opposites
and they are always in a struggle with each other – good versus
evil, God versus the devil, capitalism and communism – we see
so many of these in history. And I believe that part of what we need
to move into in the new age that we are approaching, is that we need
to rise above that dualistic state of consciousness. And the only way
to really do that is to stop identifying with the ego.
Nancy: Well, you know, that feels like death to most.
Kim: It actually—yes, I know it feels like that in the beginning
but when you really understand it, it doesn’t. See, here’s
what people can do who are listening.
Nancy: Um hmm.
Kim: So far they, you have been listening to this radio show. I’m
just asking you to shift your perception – it only takes a second
– and realize that you are a conscious being sitting here listening
to this show. Now, what you have just done is you have shifted your
perception away from something outside of yourself and you have now
become aware of who you are—you are a conscious being. And what
you are experiencing when you realize that, is you are experiencing
the very core of your identity—which is what the Masters in, in
the new book, The Art of Non-war call your conscious self.
And that conscious self is actually an extension of The Infinite, God,
The Creator, Source—whatever you want to call it. But, your conscious
self is immortal—it, it is not going to die when your ego dies.
The problem is that if your conscious self identifies itself with the
ego, then you think you’re gonna die if the ego dies. And that’s
why the only way – really – is to start becoming more aware
of who you are as that conscious being—that self-aware being.
Nancy: So many people are bound into the fears of simply maintaining
their material existence. And it’s very difficult for them to
let go of that – that grasping, that desperate feeling –
to let go of that long enough to feel themselves as the conscious being
that they are. And I’m really wanting to just emphasize and ask
all of you listeners and to your friends and family, that you might
ask yourselves, and all of the others, to do what Kim has just asked
of you, to stop for a moment and to realize the conscious being that
you are. Just to know that and to feel it—and start from there.
What would you suggest, once they’re in the place of saying, “Okay,
I can feel that shift, I can feel my expansiveness, and I can feel my
connection to you and, and to the others”—from that point,
what do you suggest that they do?
Kim: Well, you have to realize, I think, that spiritual growth is really
all about raising your awareness. So I personally always apply a two-prong
approach. One is that I study spiritual teachings, because I realize
that I need something to stimulate my mind so that I get these intuitive
insights into my experience.
Because they’re the ones that bring us forward. You know I’ve
known a lot of people who have approached their spirituality as an intellectual
exercise—they seek to understand it intellectually, but the ones
who really make progress are the ones who tune into their intuition.
And really start working with the intuition.
And that’s when you start realizing that an outer spiritual teaching
is not meant to be an absolute truth. It’s given to stimulate
that intuitive process, so we get an experience of the Spirit of Truth,
as Jesus called it. And so that’s the one approach, is study.
The other approach is practice. I believe that there are many people
who could benefit greatly from adopting some kind of spiritual practice—it
can be yoga, meditation, it can be affirmations. I mean on, on one of
my other websites called mothermarysgarden.com, I have a number of spiritual
exercises that I have been given from Mother Mary, who actually is not
the Catholic person that most people see her as—she is way beyond
that. She actually right now holds the office of the Divine Mother for
all people on Earth.
Nancy: Again, that’s mothermarysgarden.com?
Kim: Yeah.
Nancy: Okay.
Kim: And there’s a link to it from the Ask Real Jesus website,
as well.
But, on it there are number—they are called rosaries, because
they are a little bit similar to the Catholic concept of giving a rosary,
but they are actually, that’s where the similarities kind of stop.
They are very different in the sense that they are specifically designed
to help people overcome psychological blocks. For example, there is
a rosary for loving yourself.
There’s a rosary for clearing the heart. And there are, there
are 45 right now, as of right now, and I get more all the time. So there
is definitely one that, that any person should be interested in.
Nancy: You know, Kim, if we could just get the one, the first one accomplished,
loving self. Ahhh! The rest would come along (laughter) the rest would
move smoothly, wouldn’t it?
Kim: It would just fall into place.
Nancy: Yes. OK, please stay tuned. You’re listening to Lights
On with Nancy Lee. We’ll be right back.
You’re listening to Lights On with Nancy Lee and my very special
guest, Kim Michaels. Kim is the author of fourteen books and counting--the
latest one, The Art of Non-war. He is the channel for many Ascended
Masters, I would say, Jesus as the primary, Mother Mary, Saint Germain
and many others. His website, askrealjesus.com is so full and rich and
such, such a source for your questions and answers--and all I can say
is that if you’re interested in your spiritual growth, please
look at askrealjesus.com .
Now Kim, how can our listeners know that Jesus is actually speaking
through you?
Kim: I think they can only know in their hearts, just like we talked
about—work with your intuition. And I believe that when you get
beyond fear, when you get beyond the analytical mind and get into the
love, you will feel in your heart whether the messages on the website
resonate with you. And that might take a little bit of doing for some
people if they have been used to or grown up in a fear-based or intellectual
approach to spirituality. But I believe that a lot of people today are
ready to go beyond that. You just have to ask your heart—and there
really isn’t anything I can say, because if I begin arguing why
this is true or not, we go into argument-counter argument and that never
settles anything.
Nancy: Mm hmm.
Kim: So really, I believe that people need to go with their heart.
Nancy: So just feel if it rings true to you?
Kim: Yeah.
Nancy: And if it doesn’t, perhaps this isn’t the right information
for you at this time.
Kim: Right. But then I would say that people should be open to the fact
that what you can receive right now is depending on your consciousness
right now. There is an old saying that when the student is ready, the
master appears.
Meaning that wherever you’re at on your personal path, there is
a teacher who is the right one to take you to the next level. And that’s
really what you need to look for. And then maybe when you have gotten
to that next level, you need to look for a new teacher instead of clinging
to the old one as if it’s going to be it for the rest of your
life. And so if you see the path as an ongoing process and try to follow
your intuition, then I think people will get where they need to go.
Nancy: How can we best reach Christ consciousness?
Kim: Well, it really is about following the heart, and again, study
and practice, as I said. It might take some time, depending on where
people are at, you know. For me, I mean, quite frankly, it took 25 years
before I even started glimpsing what Christ consciousness was all about
and before I started actually accepting that perhaps I could reach it.
And I don’t claim I have the full Christ consciousness—I
believe there are layers of it, levels of it, but nevertheless, I can
certainly see that I have changed so much in the past 25 years that
I feel like a totally different person.
Nancy: Well, Kim, number one, I think it is vital that people understand
that reaching for Christ consciousness is our birthright,
It’s something for us to aim for, and the other piece would be
that we are continually evolving. So even if we don’t feel that
we’ve fully arrived – and who can actually say that
– but we’re heading toward it and are getting glimpses and
feelings and guidance and getting closer and closer to what that might
be. Do you agree with this?
Kim: Oh, absolutely. I believe that growth in consciousness is an ongoing
process. As long as we’re on earth, we don’t have to worry
about it ending.
Nancy: (Laughter.) No, nothing there that’s going to run out,
right?
Kim: No, definitely not. I mean, it is actually incredibly arrogant
– and is a trick of the ego – to believe, “Oh, now
I have found the ultimate spiritual teaching or ultimate religion.”
It’s something the ego does to make people feel secure, and as
I said earlier, people have that need for security, well, that’s
what they have. But once you move away from that fear-based need –
move into that love-based need – you realize you actually want
freedom more than you want security, and freedom only comes through
love.
And the ultimate state of freedom is the Christ consciousness. If you
look at Jesus’ life, nobody – no authority on earth –
had any power over him. They could not change him, he was willing to
be who he was and do what he came for—even if they threatened
to torture and kill him.
Nancy: Now this is big. This is, I think, the biggest thing. He didn’t
come in with this conditional approach that if he were popular and everyone
liked him, then he would do it.
Kim: No, he, I mean, Christhood is not a popularity contest.
Nancy: Mm hmm. Yes.
Kim: Because if you really think about what is the Christ, what is the
living Christ, it is actually a presence that challenges us to think
outside our mental boxes. Again, you know, we talk about these infallible
belief systems. The ego is constantly trying to create a mental box,
and it’s trying to make you believe that as long as you stay inside
that box, you can feel secure, you’re safe—you are going
to be saved.
But the conscious self that we talked about can never feel content within
that box – that’s why so many people are longing for more
– they are longing for a deeper spiritual understanding than what
they were given when they grew up. And so, you know, the Christ comes
to actually set us free from our limitations, from our boundaries, our
prisons, by challenging us to think outside our mental boxes—whatever
that mental box might be.
So you have to look at Jesus, for example, and say that he came to a
very specific culture at a specific time. There were certain things
that he could say at that time and there were a lot of things that he
couldn’t say because people were not ready for it. You have the
fundamentalist Christians who believed the Bible was the word of God
and we don’t need anything beyond what is in the Bible, but Jesus
himself says right in the Bible: “I have yet many things to say
unto you, but you can not bear them now.” So as you said, we,
as humanity, we are engaged in a continuous process of raising our consciousness.
I mean, just look at how much our world view has been expanded in 2,000
years. It’s obvious that Jesus has much more to say to us today
than he could say 2,000 years ago—at least it’s obvious
to me.
Nancy: You know, I’d just like to point out for those who are
still having trouble with if Jesus is or isn’t connecting to you
and whether or not the messages are real. If you look at the power and
the glory of Jesus, and if you do believe Jesus as the Son of God, or
a son of God, as the leader of our earthly journey—why wouldn’t
he have the power to speak and to send messages in any way that might
be necessary for our current time/space continuum? Why would that be
unbelievable? It makes very basic sense to me—am I overstating
the case?
Kim: No, I think you’re absolutely right. Why wouldn’t Jesus
have something to say to us today—because we have changed and
we can receive it, what we couldn’t receive 2000 years ago?
Nancy: And how could we ever limit him to his ways and means of getting
that information forward?
Kim: And that’s exactly right, but that’s what some people
want to do.
Nancy: Keep him in a box? (Laughter.)
Kim: Yeah.
Nancy: And keep us in our box.
Kim: Because then they can feel secure that they’re going to be
saved by being a member of a particular church.
Nancy: Mm hmm.
Kim: Even though Jesus said that that isn’t the way.
Nancy: Mmm, much to think about. Okay stay tuned, we’ll be right
back.
Thank you all for listening to Lights On with Nancy Lee and my special
guest, Kim Michaels. Kim, you’re just a wonder and a joy, and
we’re going to have to do this again, but for now, before the
show ends, you know, I’d just like to mention again, the idea
of trying to limit Jesus, to keep Jesus in a certain kind of box that
our own minds are comfortable with for our own feeling of need for security.
How can you help our listeners free themselves of trying to limit Jesus
in that way?
Kim: Well, it really boils down to—I think people have to make
a conscious decision to decide, “Do I want my approach to religion
and spirituality to be controlled by fear, or do I want to move into
an approach that’s based on love?”
And I believe that if you really look at Jesus’ teachings, he
was actually doing everything he could to help people move into a love-based
approach to spirituality. He was constantly challenging the scribes
and the Pharisees who clearly had a fear-based approach. But he was
also often saying “fear not,” he has one wonderful sentence,
“Fear not little flock for it is the Father’s good pleasure
to give you the kingdom.”
That’s what you said earlier, Nancy, when you said that we have
to realize that Christ consciousness is our birthright and that’s
what Jesus came to show us—that it is actually God’s desire
that we move away from fear and into love, and why is that? Well, that
has to do with who we are, and when you realize that you are a self-aware
being, that you have a conscious self, you realize that God created
you to be a co-creator with God, not to be a worshiper of God.
Because when you really think about it, if God is infinite, does God
need to be worshiped by us human beings on this very small planet in
a very big universe? I mean, you go back to the Middle Ages and they
thought planet earth was the center of the universe, but we know it’s
not. So why does God need to be worshiped? What God needs us to do is
to serve as co-creators in bringing a better society to this planet,
and that is what I believe Jesus came to show, that it is possible to
go beyond that fear-based dualistic state of consciousness, where we’re
always fighting each other—and he wanted his followers to do the
same thing.
Nancy: You know, it sounds so easy. Love. Love each other, love yourself.
Kim: Well, that is what Jesus said. One of his most central commandments
is love God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love your neighbor
as yourself. But the trick is, before you can love your neighbor as
yourself, you have to love yourself.
Nancy: Yes!
Kim: And that’s a problem, because we have been brought up in
a society – and this is not just a matter of Christianity, but
this is in our general culture – we are told not to love yourself,
that there is something wrong with you, inherently wrong with you. I
mean, you look at how most of us grew up—we might have had a religious
upbringing in Christianity that tells us we are sinners, and then we
go to school and we learn about science, which tells us we are evolved
monkeys. None of those two are actually designed to help our self-esteem
a whole lot, are they?
Nancy: No.
Kim: So we have to get to a point where realize that we are not inherently
sinners. Because that would mean God created us as sinners, but he didn’t.
God created us as extensions of himself, itself, herself, whatever you
want to call it, and we’re here to be co-creators. We’re
here to do what Jesus said when he said “I and my father are one,”
and “My father worketh hitherto and I work.” We are here
to do God’s work on earth, but in order to do that, we have to
accept that we have a right to do that. And that’s where we have
been conditioned by both religion and science to deny that, to deny
who we are.
Nancy: You know, some people think that it’s irresponsible if
they stop worrying about money and debt and bills and that primary focus.
They think that if you let go of that worry that somehow you’re
not doing your job. What can you say that opening your heart to greater
love and less fear around those issues might possibly do for you?
Kim: Well, it will set you free. I mean, you take Jesus’ statement,
“Do unto others as you want them to do to you.”
It’s like I talked about earlier, what he was saying between the
lines is “The universe is a mirror.” If you worry, the universe
interprets your worry that you want to be worried, you want to experience
conditions that seemingly confirm that you have to be worried about
everything. And so the universe gives you those conditions.
And the problem that most people have, Nancy – and this is actually
really the essence of spiritual growth – is that we have come
to think that this world has power over us. So we think we are worried
because there really is a lot of things to be worried about, and we
think that we can’t stop worrying until those things outside of
us change. But what Jesus really said, “The kingdom of God is
within you” means we have the power to take command over our own
psyche, over our own beings. We can change our state of mind regardless
of outer conditions.
That’s what Jesus demonstrated. He was at peace, regardless of
what they did to him. We all have that power when we know who we are.
And when we change our consciousness, then the outer conditions will
change. Because this universe is just a reflection of our state of consciousness.
If you look at the situation on earth today, with all the warfare and
conflict and strife, we, humankind, we have collectively created this
senseless struggle.
And we are saying, When the struggle, when the outer conditions change,
then we’ll change our minds and stop worrying.” But that’s
putting the cart before the horse—it works the other way around.
We have to change our consciousness BEFORE the outer conditions will
change. That’s what Jesus said, that’s what the Buddha said,
and that’s what all spiritual teachers have been saying throughout
the ages.
Nancy: And that’s what we’re still needing to learn how
to do. I mean, if these truths sound like something you’ve heard
before, it’s because they bear repeating.
Kim: Basically, our spiritual teachers have been saying the same thing
in different ways to different people for thousands of years.
Nancy: Mm hmm.
Kim: It’s the same basic message: Start by changing yourself.
Nancy: So Kim, if we could all in one flash – in one moment, just
get that today—then what would we do?
Kim: We would start creating a golden future. It wouldn’t happen
overnight, but it would start happening right away.
Nancy: Well, I’m ready.
Kim: So am I.
Nancy: Okay! Kim, thank you so much for being with me on Lights On today.
The show is coming to a close, but please hold on and we’ll be
back for the one minute rap.
You’ve been listening to Lights On with Nancy Lee and my very
special guest, Kim Michaels. His website askrealjesus.com will absolutely
give you as much guidance as you want for your spiritual path and research
and information. It’s just incredible. Kim, thank you for being
with me on the show today.
Kim: Thank you, Nancy, it’s been a joy.
Nancy: Will you come back again?
Kim: Certainly. Anytime you want.
Nancy: Well, it’s just been truly, truly magnificent. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. And for our listeners, always remember to ask
yourselves: “What would love do now?” We’ll be back
next week.
Back
to top
Copyright
© 2008 by Nancy Lee, used with permission. |
